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These are links to some of the major sections in the mixtape collective.
  • Lists: Browse various lists that are generated by the loads of data we have collected.
  • Contests: Check out the latest contests, see previous winners, and find out how you can be a part
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Log Posting

Seeking your opinion
9/28/06 08:51pm
So, as you all know, Eric and I have been slowly working on the 2.0 redesign. Yada-yada-yada, we've talked about it a bunch...

Anyway, I wanted to get some feedback from you guys about fundamental aspects of the site that need to be changed/fixed/updated.

I would post this on the forums, but I want everyone to see and read it, so we can get a better idea of what you all think.

Let's try to keep this on the topic of serious things that need to be changed. If you have ideas for new features or if you notice small bugs (typos, etc) on the site, please bring them up elsewhere.

Here are the major ones are already going to get taken care of in the redesign. We recognize these as problems and are planning on fixing them:

- Music Database rework: although the current form works fine, it needs some adjusting to be a more accurate database. Currently a track can only belong to one album, and an album can only belong to one artist. This becomes a problem for soundtracks, compilations, etc... and also for songs that might appear on an album, plus a greatest hits, etc etc.

- Moderations: the entire system is crap. In theory it is good, but I poorly executed it because we were rushing the last week before we had to get the site up and running for our class.

- General efficiency: some of this we can't help because our provider sucks, but this is getting addressed.

- My account section: the layout of this is annoying. This was the first thing we wrote for the site and it shows. Having multiple save buttons was a dumb idea. Anyway, this will be fixed in 2.0.

- A way to search for users and mixtapes, as well as flag them as 'favorites' so you can quickly navigate to them.


Other than those, what other major things do you guys want to see fixed or updated?

The one thing that personally bothers me is how stagnant the top user list is. I feel that we probably offered far too many points for adding to the database. Unfortunately, I don't know how to address this really, other than to retroactively reduce the value of database additions. Obviously, this would be a point of contention for those that spent hours slaving away on the music/mix creation pages graciously populating our db (thanks a ton!).

What would the reaction be if we retroactively decreased the value of points earned in this fashion (say to 75% or maybe 60%). I have a feeling the order of the top users would remain close to the same if we did this, but the point differences would be less so newer users could maybe have a shot to be in the spotlight for a bit.

Or what if we had a system of diminishing returns... so the first 1000 tracks you add give you 1 point, the next 1000 give you .5 points, the next 1000 give .35, etc etc etc.

Ultimately, I think we would like to see the top user list be more dynamic, but is it worth the cost of possibly alienating some of our high-ranked users?

What do you guys think? I especially want to hear from the people in the top 10 (you guys are some of most loyal users and we strongly value your opinion!)

comments:

The Feedback Badge badge
The Feedback Badge
This badge is awarded to those who went above and beyond the call of duty and told us how much 'the Collective' really sucks.
awarded on 2006-03-13

Level 16
I don't like the idea of getting less points for doing things the more times you do them (i.e., .35 points for db entries after 2000 entries or whatever). Maybe stuff like that worth less right from the start? Otherwise, after so long, people don't have much incentive to add to the database, refer people, etc..

I was even thinking along the lines of having things not worth a lot when you first start out and gaining more worth as you keep doing them (i.e., .25 points per song for the first 500, .35 for the next 500, .5 for the next 1000, and so on), but having all of the tasks cap out in value eventually. This gives people a reason to do a lot of work for little points at first, and then feel more satisfied when they're getting more points for the tasks.

And, re: Google Ads
I think Google text ads would be great. As long as there's no flashing animation telling me to shoot the terrorists, it's great.
10/08/06 11:29am
The Level 21 Badge badge
The Level 21 Badge
You're finally legal! Huzzah! We all know you've been boozing since you were 13, but don't worry, we'll keep quiet.

Now, get off the damn computer and go hit up the bars.
awarded on 2007-06-23

Level 28
rad
10/07/06 07:54pm
The 6/6/6 Badge badge
The 6/6/6 Badge
Special thanks to those that embraced the Collective on this most sacrilegious of holidays. Mix on, you vile tormentor of souls!
awarded on 2006-06-06

Level 20
something is already in the works for this... we wanted to do it when we created referrals in the first place, but we couldn't. Extra point rewards will be given for referred users who become active. We will not penalize users if their referrals are bad or don't use the site, however, they will get all or at least a portion of the initial referral bonus points removed.
10/07/06 12:14pm
The Level 21 Badge badge
The Level 21 Badge
You're finally legal! Huzzah! We all know you've been boozing since you were 13, but don't worry, we'll keep quiet.

Now, get off the damn computer and go hit up the bars.
awarded on 2007-06-23

Level 28
Actually, I have a better idea than the recursive referral points. We're trying to build a community here, right? We don't want a community of dead accounts cause people got their friends to sign up so they'd get referral points and then their friends weren't active. Nor do we want a community of jackasses.

Now, I'm not saying we should penalize those who refer lamers and jackasses.. they'll get filtered out of the community one way or the other, and really will just be fluff. We really should reward those who refer the users that eventually become the valuable assets that make this community thrive. Reward the people that bring active and respected community members to the site.

What would be cool is referral system where the referrer gets a bonus, say 50 points when a user that they refer hits level 5, another say, 100 points when their referee hits 10, and so on.. the higher the person that they have referred gets, the more they are valued and respected in the community, and therefore the more the referrer should be valued and respected by the community for bringing such a valuable asset to the site.

Anyways, hopefully this wouldn't be too hard to implement.. what do you think? It makes sense to me anyways :-)
10/06/06 07:36pm
The Level 21 Badge badge
The Level 21 Badge
You're finally legal! Huzzah! We all know you've been boozing since you were 13, but don't worry, we'll keep quiet.

Now, get off the damn computer and go hit up the bars.
awarded on 2007-06-23

Level 28
hmm, maybe a system of recursive (is that the right word?) diminishing referrals.. where you refer someone and get your referral points, and then for every person that person refers you get x amount of points in ratio to theirs?
10/05/06 06:01pm
The 6/6/6 Badge badge
The 6/6/6 Badge
Special thanks to those that embraced the Collective on this most sacrilegious of holidays. Mix on, you vile tormentor of souls!
awarded on 2006-06-06

Level 20
referral points are already in place. 150 for first, 140 for second...e cte cte ctec with a bottom cap of 50
10/04/06 09:41pm
Team Monster Member badge
Team Monster Member
TEAM MONSTER crept like a beast in the night, waiting to pounce on the unsuspecting TEAM ROBOT and rob it of it's life, mixtaping pride and sweet Casio calculator watch. Congrats!
awarded on 2006-10-18

Level 10
How about more points for inviting friends to join. Like a reference reward or something?
10/04/06 08:05pm
The 6/6/6 Badge badge
The 6/6/6 Badge
Special thanks to those that embraced the Collective on this most sacrilegious of holidays. Mix on, you vile tormentor of souls!
awarded on 2006-06-06

Level 20
derhay, the ideas were in no way inspired by you in particular...simply that the ranking system had lost its focus. Keep populating our db! =D
10/04/06 12:02pm
The Yay! Badge VII badge
The Yay! Badge VII
This baffling badge is bestowed to those who can truly grasp the striking permanence and ungodly continuance of the of the elusive 'YAY!'.
awarded on 2007-08-27

Level 27
"I see no harm in taking away points for mixes already added" meaning the 50 points for each mix that I received for each mix sent out into the void.
10/03/06 05:56pm
The Yay! Badge VII badge
The Yay! Badge VII
This baffling badge is bestowed to those who can truly grasp the striking permanence and ungodly continuance of the of the elusive 'YAY!'.
awarded on 2007-08-27

Level 27
I can't help but feel that the "retroactive points" is pointed at me. Take my points away if it solves anything. I believe that effort=reward. The only reason I kept adding to the database was 1) yeah, I had the time 2) I thought I was contributing the cause 3) I have a huge collection of music (not files, actual music) and I added what I would use now, or down the road for mixes. I tried to add what I would use for mixes and didn't add music for the sake of the points. I have admited many times that I was trolling for badges, but didn't find them when I entered XXX amount of albums, or artists or XXXX tracks.

This is my Point Breakdown: Tracks Added: 4035 pts. Albums Added: 458 pts. Artists Added: 241 pts. Options Added: 4844 pts. Profiles Rated: 22 (22 pts.) I have to admit I'm confused by this process. I have different music taste, or have a vendetta and I give you -X points? pts. cont. Mixtapes Rated: 300 (300 pts.)

I'll try not to be too paranoid about the retroactive points, but I'll point out that I joined at the end of June and now I'm second in the Top-10. That's cool and all, and I love this site, but it's not a glory thing for me. (because there is none) I put the time in to help the database and save time for some other user to put a mix together that has similar taste to me.

I like the idea of extending the Top-10 lists to include the mixtapes, new uses mixes, themed mixes and Top-5 by description.

I see no harm in taking away points for mixes already added and having an exponential increase in points as mixes increase in levels. Requiring information explaining why minus marks are being
given is also a great idea. I know I need more time to think about improvements. d, later
10/03/06 05:53pm
The Valentine's Day 2007 Badge badge
The Valentine's Day 2007 Badge
Happy Valentine's day from the MTC staff. We really love you guys. That said, put your pants on and get out before we call the cops.
awarded on 2007-02-14

Level 21
Of course.
10/03/06 02:38pm
The Yay! Badge VIII badge
The Yay! Badge VIII
This confounding badge is bestowed to those who can truly realize the wondrous consternation and inhuman scintillance of the of the elusive 'YAY!'.
awarded on 2008-01-11

Level 25
So, you want me to design the site AND make wallpapers? Shit...

:D
10/02/06 07:13pm
The Friday the 13th Badge I badge
The Friday the 13th Badge I
Friday the 13th taught us all the heartwarming lesson that if you are a camp counselor, it's probably not in your best interest to let that (potentially mentally retarded [see wikipedia]) kid swim alone while you are trying to get a piece of ass.
awarded on 2007-07-14

Level 23
oh, and lets get some more MTC wallpapers up in this bitch
10/02/06 06:23pm
The Yay! Badge IV badge
The Yay! Badge IV
A slightly exclusive (5 total) special badge bestowed to those who can truly understand the complicated, multifaceted intricacies and religion/cult-like implications of the phrase 'yay!'
awarded on 2006-10-10

Level 14
fine with the ads.
you gotta make some money somehow.
10/02/06 05:58pm
The Yay! Badge VIII badge
The Yay! Badge VIII
This confounding badge is bestowed to those who can truly realize the wondrous consternation and inhuman scintillance of the of the elusive 'YAY!'.
awarded on 2008-01-11

Level 25
textual ads only.
10/02/06 01:53pm
The Level 21 Badge badge
The Level 21 Badge
You're finally legal! Huzzah! We all know you've been boozing since you were 13, but don't worry, we'll keep quiet.

Now, get off the damn computer and go hit up the bars.
awarded on 2007-07-25

Level 24
The adds: would they be the plain-text type of ads that appear along the sides of my gmail, or flashy glowing things that move around the screen and trick you onto clicking them by placing a false "X" in the top right corner.

Because I don't really mind the plain ones.
10/02/06 01:43pm
The Badge of Mystery badge
The Badge of Mystery
Huh?!? Where did this come from?
awarded on 2008-08-14

Level 26
GIVE IN TO THE GOOGLE BEAST.
As long as the ads don't cause extra clutter. How many are you talking about? If it gets me a tshirt, I'm all for it.

-- I agree about the no free points for mixtapes and putting more weight on achieving higher mixtape scores.

-- The resting system concept hurts my brain.

-- I like darrin's idea about an extra line of text or a badge identifying contest mixes, winners, etc.

-- I also like the idea of putting more weight into user ratings versus data entry. While dataheads should still be rewarded, if some bitchass punk with a lot of free time bumps me out of my spot, I damn well better be able to rate him down mega points. Not merely out of spite, but on the principle of the matter.

-- The Grammy-type idea is awesome. Maybe near the end of the year we can vote on categories, and then vote on the winners for those categories, besides the top-rated awards, etc.

-- YES to contest tagboards.
10/02/06 01:06pm
The Yay! Badge VIII badge
The Yay! Badge VIII
This confounding badge is bestowed to those who can truly realize the wondrous consternation and inhuman scintillance of the of the elusive 'YAY!'.
awarded on 2008-01-11

Level 25
Also -- how would y'all feel about Google adsense ads on the site? If we could gain a few bucks on the ads, we could upgrade servers and do other cool stuff (actual prizes? shirts?) etc.

Chew on it and let us know.
10/02/06 12:43pm
The Yay! Badge VIII badge
The Yay! Badge VIII
This confounding badge is bestowed to those who can truly realize the wondrous consternation and inhuman scintillance of the of the elusive 'YAY!'.
awarded on 2008-01-11

Level 25
God damn, I love this community. Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Corey and I are working hard to make this the best possible experience we can. Keep the feedback comming -- we're here for you.

Rock out.
10/02/06 12:22pm
The One Year Anniversary Badge badge
The One Year Anniversary Badge
Issued to those who have stuck it out for a year here on MTC. What a long, strange trip, huh?
awarded on 2007-10-30

Level 19
I'm tottally with Booty.
10/01/06 07:25pm
The Bronze Badge badge
The Bronze Badge
Wow, one of your mixes is doing swell in the ratings! But remember, Bob Dole did 'swell' in the primaries...
awarded on 2006-10-16

Level 24
"in order to ensure quality control over the top ranked users."

ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT I AM NOT QUALITY?
I AM OUTRAGED!
OUTRAGED, I SAY!

also, I think booty's comments made a lot of sense.
10/01/06 07:16pm
The 6/6/6 Badge badge
The 6/6/6 Badge
Special thanks to those that embraced the Collective on this most sacrilegious of holidays. Mix on, you vile tormentor of souls!
awarded on 2006-06-06

Level 20
in re: booty

that's a good point about the catch-up system (rather than give bonuses to low levels, have it based on signup date). Perhaps give people a multiplier based on signup date...so at first they get 2x points from menial tasks (rating users, logging in, random bonus points, etc) until a set period of time (a week?) or until they reach a certain level. Screw the catch-up system. Thanks!

I don't know about a resting system. That makes life more complicated. However, as I mentioned earlier...we will be incurring minor point penalties for not logging in (not on a daily basis...but like, if you haven't logged in for a week, you might start losing X points a day. Instead of giving a point multiplier, the rest system could be a way to recover those lost points...so if you don't login for 3 weeks and drop 400 points, you could recover those 400 points by logging in consecutive days and performing Y amount of actions?

a negatively ranked user's negative ratings will not yield positive points. Their ratings simply all become 0. I don't foresee this changing.

musicbrainz idea is good, but complex...simply because our database schema is different. We might look into this when we redesign the music db though.

btw, on the subject of points from adding tracks... by the unanimous feedback, it doesn't look like we'll be reducing this. However, I think a greater point emphasis will be put on high ranked mixtapes in order to ensure quality control over the top ranked users.

thanks for all your feedback everyone!
10/01/06 01:28pm
The Level 21 Badge badge
The Level 21 Badge
You're finally legal! Huzzah! We all know you've been boozing since you were 13, but don't worry, we'll keep quiet.

Now, get off the damn computer and go hit up the bars.
awarded on 2007-06-23

Level 28
Anything retroactive that would take away points from a user = BAD

Diminishing returns enforced in the future, I feel "meh" on. This could be good to prevent against people like me adding massive amounts of stuff to the database to climb the list. On the other hand, this could prevent people like me from adding massive amounts of stuff to the database and contributing to the godliness of your site. Additional rewards for low-ranked users seems like it could be a good idea, however, some users have low ranks because they are douchebags and nobody likes them. We don't want douchebags to be able to regain their points too easily, do we? Should THISSHITSUCKS be awarded massive amounts of points just for rating a user when he or she has massive point debt?

To encourage new users to contribute to the site, maybe you could award higher point values to users who have signed up more recently, and have this point bonus diminish each week for, say a month, until they get to regular point value.

To reward stagnating users for returning to the site and becoming active and contributing to the community you should use a "Double XP" or "rest" system (I can't take credit for this idea, Corey.. this goes to Peter). Users who have not contributed to the community (ie, rated other users or mixtapes, created a mixtape or added tracks to the database) could be rewarded with, say, 2x the point value for contributing to the site for a certain amount of time or points until the user is no longer feeling "rested". This system could easily be illustrated by a graphical bar in the "me" section that is purple when a user is not "rested" and blue when a user is "rested". This is just hypothetical of course, because I have never ever heard of a system even remotely similar to this being used before. Anywhere. Especially not on the internet.

Of course, in order to implement this system, you will have to build in safeguards to prevent users from purposefully stagnating in order to feel "rested" and use the double point value. This can be done by making it more lucrative pointwise for a user to log in every day and contribute to the community than to stagnate. If the +10 points for logging in every day are still being awarded (are they?), it would make a feature such as this at least feasible. If a user (we'll call him "laser") has not logged in for, say 1 week, they have missed out on 70 free points. Now that laser is back from vacation (or from his business trip god damnit) he feels "rested". Feeling suddenly refreshed, laser decides to contribute to the community by rating some new profiles and mixtapes he hasn't rated yet. So, laser rates some users and rates some mixtapes, and he receives 2 points for every user or mixtape he rates until the total value of the bonus "rest" points he has earned equals 53 (about 75% of the 70 points he missed out on while he was away, and we'll round up to be nice because we're trying to reward someone for coming back to the community). This way users that have not logged on in awhile can come back and be encouraged to contribute to the community... I think this will work anyways, theres probably some huge loophole I'm not thinking of though.

No points for creating a mix = GOLDEN, even more golden would be, like you said Corey, increasing the points awarded for mixes leveling up with each level.. this is a great idea and should absolutely be enforced retroactively. Good mixes are the lifeblood of this site, because they are created by good users who everyone loves and respects. Mix levels are a lot harder to raise than user levels, and this should be reflected by an increasing point system. It takes a long time (well, with contests, its going a lot faster now) to raise your mix's level and achieving this should be rewarded.

I like the idea of bringing back mixtape rating anonymity. I'm not sure how I feel about required comments or justification for significantly negative ratings.. on one hand it sucks if there are douchebags running around giving -5 to people just to be an asshole.. but if they are a douchebag then they (hopefully) are not respected on the site and their -5 isnt worth much (by the way, is a -5 from a user with a negative point value really a +5? It should be, because if a user has negative points, that says that the community doesn't respect that user or value their opinion, so a negative opinion from a negative valued user should mean a positive opinion from the community.. because, after all, the value of a user's opinion in this community is based on how well the community values that user's opinion). Back from my tangent, on the other hand, if you dislike a mix enough to rate it a -5, there probably isn't much that you could say that won't make you sound like a total asshole and make people hate you, so it might be better just to keep your mouth shut about why you dislike that mix so much.

Obviously duels and gang battles are going to be the greatest thing ever in the whole wide world when they are implemented. Keep up the good work, I know we ALL look forward to this and you will have hundreds of ecstatic users when these features are released.. not to mention probably another surge in new users and likely a surge of reactivity of old users.

Also, I'm pretty sure I've mentioned this before, but a great way to populate the database quickly would be to find a way you could import the data from a musicbrainz tagger log and have mtc users that use the musicbrainz tagger or musicbrainz picard submit their logs to populate the database. You could offer an incentive of, say 25% of the point value of those additions up to a certain amount of points, or up to a 1 level increase on the site (that way people like me who are anal about their tags and probably have 10,000 songs that have been run through the tagger wouldnt get too many points). Or you could give a badge for an amount of data submitted, or just ask for the user's donation out of the kindness of their hearts. I'd gladly send you my logs if it would help populate the database.

Oh, and basic HTML in tags (ie, bold, italic, underline, and href), and basic HTML in forums plus limited use of IMG (ie, automatically resize images to fit them in the forum tags and prevent users from posting huge pictures).

Well, I'll stop my rambling now, I've wasted too much of my valuable time.. I need to get back to studying for that damn CPA exam! Corey and Eric, you have created such a ridiculously awesome site with MTC 1.0, and I fully expect MTC 2.0 to kick more ass than Dean Cain, Dragon Fighter. It is destined to be the best site on the internet.

ps. herpes. do it.
10/01/06 01:04pm
Mixtape Contest XXV: 1st Place badge
Mixtape Contest XXV: 1st Place
You brutally murdered and made skin masks out of your competition! Way to go!


Congratulations on First Place!
awarded on 2008-12-21

Level 28
Oh yeah,
I also agree with the idea of having to describe why one is being given a -5 (or maybe -3 or -4).
10/01/06 12:44pm
Mixtape Contest XXV: 1st Place badge
Mixtape Contest XXV: 1st Place
You brutally murdered and made skin masks out of your competition! Way to go!


Congratulations on First Place!
awarded on 2008-12-21

Level 28
awww man...
i love my 2 Fibonacci badges
10/01/06 12:43pm
The 6/6/6 Badge badge
The 6/6/6 Badge
Special thanks to those that embraced the Collective on this most sacrilegious of holidays. Mix on, you vile tormentor of souls!
awarded on 2006-06-06

Level 20
oh... while I'm at it... there is a problem in that a good chunk of badges on the site can be awarded multiple times, which is kind of dumb, and is simply the result of bad programming =D. This will be fixed in 2.0.
10/01/06 08:33am
The 6/6/6 Badge badge
The 6/6/6 Badge
Special thanks to those that embraced the Collective on this most sacrilegious of holidays. Mix on, you vile tormentor of souls!
awarded on 2006-06-06

Level 20
in re: mixtape ratings... at this point we'd like to keep the anonymity... in 2.0, we'll probably be removing the 'mixtapes rated' link... that was more a test to see what the response would be.

I'll talk to eric about the required -5 thing and other awards when he gets back from out of town. I don't want to jump the gun and make any decisions with him out of the loop =P.
10/01/06 08:05am
TEAM 97 -- Team Badge badge
TEAM 97 -- Team Badge
BREAKING NEWS: Team 97 slays Team 07 in fatal mixtaping battle. More news at 11.
awarded on 2007-06-17

Level 23
exactly... that's my point. if 50 people visit and rate your mix, you can't just click on a view and see a list of those 50 people and what rating they gave. i guess that's way too convenient.

i don't visit the people's profiles and see what ratings they gave mixes when i see they visited a mix of mine. i guess i'm not cool.
10/01/06 01:34am
The MLK Badge badge
The MLK Badge
Because Civil Rights rock (and roll).
awarded on 2009-03-07

Level 27
You can go around to peoples' profiles who have viewed your mix and click on the "mixtapes rated" link on their profile... at least that's what I do when I have too much time on my hands and am being weirdly obsessive about mixtape. *blushes*
10/01/06 01:13am
TEAM 97 -- Team Badge badge
TEAM 97 -- Team Badge
BREAKING NEWS: Team 97 slays Team 07 in fatal mixtaping battle. More news at 11.
awarded on 2007-06-17

Level 23
i like the grammy-type idea.

i'm not sure how many people would care about this, but would it be possible to have a view for each of your own mixes that shows who has reviewed it and what score? or are you trying to keep a little bit of anonymity in this piece?
9/30/06 08:56pm
The Level 21 Badge badge
The Level 21 Badge
You're finally legal! Huzzah! We all know you've been boozing since you were 13, but don't worry, we'll keep quiet.

Now, get off the damn computer and go hit up the bars.
awarded on 2007-07-25

Level 24
And what about an end-the-year award for the top mix. Take the top 5 mixes and have users vote for their favorite among them. The winner could get a Grammy-type award.
9/30/06 08:46pm
The Level 21 Badge badge
The Level 21 Badge
You're finally legal! Huzzah! We all know you've been boozing since you were 13, but don't worry, we'll keep quiet.

Now, get off the damn computer and go hit up the bars.
awarded on 2007-07-25

Level 24
If you can't think of 15 words to tell why you hate a mix, you shouldn't be giving it -5.
9/30/06 08:43pm
The Level 21 Badge badge
The Level 21 Badge
You're finally legal! Huzzah! We all know you've been boozing since you were 13, but don't worry, we'll keep quiet.

Now, get off the damn computer and go hit up the bars.
awarded on 2007-07-25

Level 24
Dropping the -3 to -5 hammer should require a 15 word tag. An automatic tag window should pop up.
9/30/06 08:42pm
The Friday the 13th Badge I badge
The Friday the 13th Badge I
Friday the 13th taught us all the heartwarming lesson that if you are a camp counselor, it's probably not in your best interest to let that (potentially mentally retarded [see wikipedia]) kid swim alone while you are trying to get a piece of ass.
awarded on 2007-07-14

Level 23
yea, i agree with sledge and the others... I know that I have given (very few) -5s just because somebody made a crappy mix with only two songs or something just to be an asshat or to start some shit with someone else
9/30/06 07:40pm
The Yay! Badge IV badge
The Yay! Badge IV
A slightly exclusive (5 total) special badge bestowed to those who can truly understand the complicated, multifaceted intricacies and religion/cult-like implications of the phrase 'yay!'
awarded on 2006-10-10

Level 14
I also agree that there should be some checks on the -5s. People pass those things around like they're going out of style, I'd at least like some justification.
9/30/06 06:28pm
The Yay! Badge IV badge
The Yay! Badge IV
A slightly exclusive (5 total) special badge bestowed to those who can truly understand the complicated, multifaceted intricacies and religion/cult-like implications of the phrase 'yay!'
awarded on 2006-10-10

Level 14
i agree with sledge
9/30/06 03:23pm
The 6/6/6 Badge badge
The 6/6/6 Badge
Special thanks to those that embraced the Collective on this most sacrilegious of holidays. Mix on, you vile tormentor of souls!
awarded on 2006-06-06

Level 20
don't want to commit to anything for the moderation system because we haven't begun work on it yet and I don't to say anything I can't confirm...

but needless to say, it will work, and will be easy to use rather than the mostly non-working piece of crap it is now =D
9/30/06 02:46pm
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I think you should be forced to give a reason if you give a mix -5.
9/30/06 01:23pm
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oh, and you mentioned the moderation system was getting an overhaul - what is being changed on this?
9/30/06 12:20pm
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that sounds pretty good to me
9/30/06 12:18pm
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in re: shadowontario ... based on the responses already, if we did do diminishing returns, we wouldn't retroactively affect those of you (us) who have already added points, it would just count for future rewards.

in re: d-loot ... I was thinking about what you said, and I agree...the mixtape reward system is kind of flawed too... points are too easily given for creating a mix, but not enough points are rewarded for higher levels... right now, you get +50 points for each level your mix is...

what if it was something like +25 points for a level 2 mix, +50 for level 3, +75 for level 4, +100 for level 5, etc etc

so a level 5 mix would get (+25, +50, +75, +100)... obviously the numbers could be adjusted to be more enticing, but that way mixes would actually have to be rated fairly well in order to inflate their owner's points....

Plus, that way, there could be better rewards for better mixes...after all...a level 5 mix should be worth WAY more than 5 crappy level 1 mixes.

anyone's thoughts on this?
9/30/06 10:19am
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yes thats what i meant, i was kinda drunk when i typed that
9/30/06 09:41am
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I really really don't like "Or what if we had a system of diminishing returns... so the first 1000 tracks you add give you 1 point, the next 1000 give you .5 points, the next 1000 give .35, etc etc etc." baddd baddddddd IDEA, plus I like the idea of being able to contribute to the database. I'm so for the gang show downs. All in all I'm pretty much up for anything except for losong points... it took me a long time to get to the top 10 and I like my wavering spot.
you guys always do good anyhow.
9/29/06 11:45pm
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what about a tagboard for each specific contest?
9/29/06 07:39pm
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oh yes, a specific contest forum. i would love to comment on the current one to everyone in general. a quick link on the contest page would be most radical. And a "someone has replied" message to users when someone replys to their forum post
9/29/06 07:06pm
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Gangs for real. Some sort of way we can be notified of our gangs new mixes, and maybe the opposing gang mixes.

NO MORE FREE POINTS JUST FOR PUTTING OUT MIX TAPES.

some people put one out, well it seems like everyday. That kinda pisses me off that they can climb so high in the ratings, with shite mixtapes.

maybe they dont get anypoints until they hit 1500 on the points scale. then they get the 25 points are whatever
9/29/06 06:58pm
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ah darrin, you snuck in while I was typing.

Yeah, we want to add some additional indicators for things like that. It would also be cool to special titles or awards on the profiles of those who hold a certain rank, say, 1-10 in points...top 3 narcissists, top 3 stalkers, etc etc...(all of which are things that can be done now with our processing system that I mentioned in that book below)
9/29/06 06:27pm
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Thanks for all the responses so far....

I'm just going to go up the list.

d-loot: first idea is interesting, but probably not something we'll do. at least not at this time. There is nothing wrong with narcissism! With that said though, we could post the tag messages into the message center instead of just the 'you have a new tag' message. Also, our new framework allows us to have processes that get run at set periods of time (say, every night @ midnight, or every hour, etc). With these processes, we can run code that is much more computationaly expensive (and would destroy the site if run all the time)...this code gives us the freedom to reward narcissism in ways that we can't currently do!

My relationships ... it works on my machine, weird. but anwyay, yeah, it's still kind of a crummy system. We're already looking at improving this in 2.0.

animation is out, sorry =P.

Duels...they are actually called Showdowns and have been on the drawing board since day 1. I doubt they'll see a 2.0 release, but they are certainly very high on our priority list. (also, gang showdowns!)

Galaxiepi: I don't necessarily see it as biting the hand that feeds since the user is still gaining points. The initial intention of awarding points was simply because we didn't think people would enter anything otherwise. We had no idea that it would become the primary way of gaining points on the site. But I do see what you mean, we do want to continue to reward users for entering data...we just don't want the point/level system to be based 75% on time spent working on the db. More rewards would be nice...badges, maybe some top lists, other rewards etc. Also, we have plans to promote people to moderator positions once the moderation system is actually working correctly...and we could have required milestones to be eligible (such as 1000 tracks), and maybe even have extra perks along the way.

Galenthon: the system you mention is still being considered. I've thought about a lot of it and drafted it out on paper (the theory behind it). What remains to be seen is if it is feasible. I can certainly code it...the question however is if our system can handle it. I'll have to do some benchmarks and find out.

Alice: I completely get what you are saying and like the ideas of the other lists. My concern with the points isn't as much about the popularity though, it's about the weight of the leveling system. Thankfully everyone in the top 10 is reputable and rated highly from others so it isn't an issue at this point. But the system is flawed in that a total asshat with tons of free time on their hands could spent all day/night entering into the database to get to a high level. The high levels are supposed to be reserved for those that the community trusts/respects, because after all, the high level people have the most control over ratings. Unfortunately, so much value is given to the database entries, that a -5 rating from every user on the site would maybe drop a level 20 person 2-3 levels tops.

It seems to me, the more I think about it, the problem isn't as much that the database rewards are too high (although I still in favor of diminishing returns for future rewards), but perhaps user ratings aren't worth enough. Of course, the problem is that every user that joins the site slightly decreases the value of non-rating points because they are bring point inflation to the system. Sure, right now, a couple hundred user's ratings dont have the power to completely determine someone's level... but a couple thousand users will.

I don't know, it's all just speculation and tossing around ideas. Thanks for everyone's input, let's keep it up!

9/29/06 06:16pm
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When viewing somebody's profile, there is a list of their highest rated mixtapes. It would be swell if on that list is was somehow denoted which ones where contest mixes, and what place they got (if in the top 3). Almost like a little badge for the mixtape, or just a line of text underneath. Like this:

Super awesome mix number 1: 1893 points
Mixtape Contest 12: Awesome songs 2nd Place (smaller and italicized or something)

My two cents. Word up.
9/29/06 05:53pm
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Level 23
or possibly have a random top 10 appear everytime. top 10 users by points, top 10 artists by points, data entry, most popular, etc
9/29/06 01:27pm
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how about you just make the front page top 10 "most popular" and have it rated by people who have the most votes from others, and then have an "overall top 10" or "best data entry slaves top 10" on the users page?
i think changing what points go to whom and when and how is just way too complicated and weird. if no one knows how or why they are gaining points at the rate they are gaining it, and have to do a ton of math to figure out when they'll be able to get to top 10, it just makes it more of a pain in the ass. keep it simple. if you want people to fight for the front page top 10, make it about popularity, not data entry, and keep the OVERALL top 10 on a list somewhere less prominent (so that us REAL top 10ers don't get points taken away/ have the opportunity to gain points taken away).
9/29/06 12:32pm
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Level 23
I know that the ability to tag a mixtape/artist/album/track with a genre (and having the influence of each tag depend on what level the user is - similar to the current ratings) was being discussed at one point, is that still being considered?
9/29/06 11:49am
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I like the idea of more points being given to newer users. And the idea for decreasing the point value for each song after 1000 is a good idea, except isn't that biting the hand that feeds you? Sometimes they seem to be the only ones truly entering info into the database (because I sure as hell haven't done it in ages), and I think slighting them for doing such a thing is sending mixed messages. "Thanks for all the hard work, now it's worth less." If maybe there was a separate bonus for those users (I don't know, badges, earlier access to key information, whatever), maybe that could alleviate that dilemma?
9/29/06 10:53am
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Level 24
Oh. Duels. (Playground fights, Intergalactic Rap Battle, whatever you want to call it...) Maybe a user can challenge another user to a Mixtape duel for insulting his love of George Michael or sommink. Each of you select ten songs and "fire". The collective votes on the winner. Winner gets 50 points, looser -50. Of course there could be a duel certification process, so innocent parties aren't hauled in for no reason. There could be one a week, with a week to vote. With a prominent place on the front page so people know there is something to vote for.
9/29/06 08:12am
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Just a few ideas. Maybe at a certain high level, say 13 or something, the user gets a personal badge that they can award to their friends. I guess this is kind of like your gang idea, but not exactly. It could be different. Something the user can name and submit artwork and the story for. A badge you give to select people you deem worthy... or unworthy.

Maybe a way to check your messages without entering your profile and seeming the top Narcissist, unless there was a reward for that.

"My relationships" has never seemed to work properly. It would be nice to know Why people are your friends (or foes).

And I know nothing about computer coding or anything like that, and it would probably slow down your server too, but perhaps a few simple animations: stars that slowly change from yellow to orange, or a chamelion badge.

9/29/06 07:56am
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Thanks for the response. What about if we didn't retroactively reduce points, but maybe implemented something like the diminishing returns for future database additions. So everyone would keep their points as they are now, but people that have added 1000+ tracks will have to work harder to raise their points. After all, the rankings system was intended to be more about how others rated you. This way, we wouldn't be screwing the people that have already put tons of data in the database. Plus, new users would still be able to add their first 1000 tracks at pull point value to try to catch up.

Another possible idea is maybe to have additional rewards available to low-ranked users. ie assign a point value to common actions on the site (rating, creating mixes...hell, even just being on the site). For example's sake, we'll say all of these things would be worth 1 point. Users who are in the bottom 25% in points would maybe get 2x that value, or 3x that value. 26-50% would maybe get the normal value, 51-75% would get like .5, and 76-100% wouldn't get rewarded.

This would have the benefit that brand new users would have an accelerated leveling process when they first join, which could encourage them to be more active and increase their chances of enjoying the site.

It also gives all those not in the upper echelon a chance to catch up, but not unfairly (as it would require some time...it would just be a slow gain).

Of course, those in the top percentage might not like this because it could mean that their places are at stake. However, think about it this way. A) It encourages those in the top positions to work harder to maintain their place. B) If your place is taken and you drop down from the top %, now YOU get the bonus points and have a chance to catch up.

There are some other things we also want to add to keep things from getting stagnant, such as slight point decreases for each day you don't sign on (multiple days in a row lead to slightly larger decreases), offering rewards (badges, point bonuses, etc) for the user who accelerates the most each day (either increase by sheer # of points, or by percentage of their total points), and some other stuff that isn't possible in our current framework but is being implemented in 2.0.
9/29/06 07:18am
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As a member of the top 10, I definitely do not want my points reduced, even if it is in relation to everyone else's. I mean, I just hit 10,000 today! That's an MTC milestone. Nevermind wouldn't that complicate things with level badges?

I think, if anything, there should be higher incentive for users who have fewer points to get them and enter the top 10. While I don't really want to be bumped from my comfortable #5, I definitely would like to see a few more overeagers working their way to the top. You kind of addressed that with the top 10 new users, but what's the incentive to get that? In a certain amount of time you're not a new user and you're off that list.

I guess in essence, I feel the solution is a more complex rewards system. Increase the incentive and you increase activity and user participation. Everything else is peachy.
9/28/06 11:30pm
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